According to the Telegraph in London, Alibaba Group has appointed Rothschild to act as advisor on the IPO of its Alibaba.com B2B unit. The report confirms that "Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley have been enlisted to underwrite the Alibaba share sale".
It goes on to suggest that "The flotation is likely to be the biggest-ever IPO by a Chinese internet company, and could value Alibaba's business arm at as much as $4bn."
The report was unconfirmed by either Rothschild or Alibaba.
Monday, July 16, 2007
Rothschild takes on the Ali-IPO
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16 comments:
Dear Paul:
You have, today, reported about Alibaba's plans to go public with N.M. Rothschild as advisors. Alibaba is the largest online trader in which Yahoo.com has a 40% stake worth USD 1 billion.
You are probably not aware that Alibaba is heavily involved in the international shark fin trade, offering some 380 companies from all over the world a convenient platform to conduct their questionable business. By doing so, Jack Ma's Alibaba actively promotes the indiscriminate slaughter of the sharks and, thus, contributes to an environmental catastrophe of incalculable consequences.
http://www.scubaprwire.com/scuba-dive-newswire/u-Moving_Mountain_Eco_Groups_Pressure_Yahoo/sourceCode-underwaterau/read.news
In case you need more information on shark finning, and Alibaba's role as the world's largest shark fin broker, please google "alibaba shark fin trade" or "shark finning"
Best regards,
Much as I am sympathetic to the cause of reducing unnecessary slaughter of sharks, you overstate your case if you suggest that Alibaba is somehow "actively involved" or "actively promotes". That's obviously nonsense.
Feel free to promote the case for protecting sharks. Hold off rubbishing people you've never met.
Most bloggers have probably never met you - not need to be rude to those who write to you. Anyway, have a look, and tell Business Week not to publish rubbish:
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jul2007/gb20070720_756191.htm?campaign_id=rss_topStories
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jul2007/gb20070720_756191.htm?campaign_id=rss_topStories
Shark conservation is our motivation - there is serious overfishing.
The trade has a large criminal component because of the huge profits involved.
Anyone who supports the trade is complicitous in illegal activity.
Alibaba supports.
Yahoo supports.
They are therefore responsible for assisting criminal activity, but also in the destruction of a major group of species and the corresponding ecosystems - for profit.
The soup has no justification except the vanity of the purchaser, ostentatious expenditure.
It is presented as a culturally-important matter - it is no such thing.
If Amazon, Disney, Cathay, HKU, MasterCard, Singapore Airlines, Thai Airways and others can eschew it - why not these folks, who would gain a huge PR advantage in the process.
The case is not overstated. Facilitating a destructive trade is complaisant. If Alibaba, Yahoo and all the rest wish to be associated with a reprehensible trade, their choice, clearly. However, do not expect the environmentally-concerned to be amused by them making a profit in this fashion. What is so difficult to understand is why they resist a simple action and huge PR gain. Of course, there is the domino effect ... are they scared that once an ethical point is made the rest is under threat?
My original point to Wolf and in response to Brian's comment that "Alibaba supports..." is that not cutting businesses off is not the same thing as actively supporting.
However, I am perfectly willing to accept that those opposed to the sharks fin trade have a strong case here. Alibaba may win some valuable PR points and (much more importantly) make a good contribution to making it harder for people to trade in sharks fin if they were to decide that they could rank this alongside guns and pirated goods as things which can't be traded.
However, I suspect they may then find themselves the butt of criticism from traditionalists in China who accuse them of bowing to western pressure against legitimate Chinese trade - a point which Brian makes as well.
By the way, as a point of information, what is illegal about what is going on here? You describe it as criminal activity. I am sure that its obnoxious, but in what sense is it illegal?
The cultural issue is a fake, promoted out of self-interest.
SFS was consumed a long time ago, but in very small quantities. Exotic food for emperors ...
However, the market was pumped in the 1970s when HK folks acquired enough disposable income to make pushing it in restaurants worth while. Now it is self-perpetuating. Status comes from spending money - visibly. SFS is very expensive. Therefore pander to vanity. It was NOT a "cultural" practice in HK or anywhere that ordinary people would recognise. They did not aspire to it. The trade has created the market, sell status only.
The drive to increase turnover means that is pushed in San Francisco and New York, as well as mainland China - where it has been essentially known until recently to the vast majority, unheard of. This is all "cultural"?
The market is so lucrative that there is a serious criminal element involved in obtaining, shipping and importing the fins. Triads profit from this. They shoot people who try to find out anything.
Fins are obtained illegally from protected waters and from protected species. Fins are therefore handled illegally in several ways. Example: Great White fins from S Africa via Kaohshung in Hong Kong.
The HK traders refuse any kind of oversight, inspection, regulation, openness, discussion ... They are extremely aggressive, disruptive. They became extremely animated when a PhD student was uncovered as studying their business - she was in fear of her life, as I understand it. WildAid were in great danger when they filmed the business (and this had to be done with secret cameras). Confrontations on the high seas are very nasty.
Many great white fins are available - they are protected. Whale shark likewise. This is legal?
The cultural issue is indefensible. Bear paws and live monkey brains were "cultural".
The trade has substantial criminal involvement - therefore Yahoo and Alibaba are complicitous. If they wish to be associated that's their lookout, but they cannot with any credibility claim ignorance - it has been said, documented and re-emphasised enough.
Conservation is simply our motivator. We are an endangered species as well.
Sorry, para 4:
"where it has been essentially *unknown* ..."
Thanks for that clarification. It all sounds pretty scary.
You ought to see the video ...
Hi Paul - by facilitating the trade of shark fins I would say that Alibaba.com is involved - they may not be cutting the fins, but they are making it very easy to sell...
Greetings Paul -
For eleven months we have tried to convince Alibaba.com that taking down the platform would me a MAJOR PR COUP for the organization. Here is some of my corresspondence with Porter Erisman - a Hong Kong based Alibaba.com executive. Richard Stewart, Executive Director, Ocean Realm Society.
7.12.07
Dear Richard,
I wanted to get back to you with an update on our discussions about the posting of shark fins on Alibaba.com.
After several weeks of open dialogue with our employees, members and environmental groups, we have decided that our current policy is the appropriate policy at this time. Some important points:
The debate on buying and selling of shark fins is an important one and worthy of discussion. We encourage an honest, open and respectful discussion of this issue, since there is so much at stake for the environment and the preservation of many animal species.
Alibaba.com strictly prohibits the posting of endangered species which contravene the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES). This includes several shark species which are strictly prohibited from being posted on Alibaba.com.
Alibaba’s members come from over 200 countries and territories. It is our strict requirement that members do not use Alibaba.com in a way which violates relevant international or local laws. If we are informed that a member’s actions on Alibaba violate relevant laws or our Product Listing Policy, we will take immediate action to remove the member’s postings and/or terminate the user’s account.
We view our role in e-commerce as a neutral marketplace operator which empowers its members around the world to build an online presence for their businesses. It is important to note that Alibaba.com does not buy or sell the products posted by our members, and no transactions are conducted on Alibaba.com. Our marketplace serves simply as a meeting place where members can post products and services.
So long as our members are using Alibaba’s services in a legal manner, we offer them the choice of what products and services to trade in. It is this respect of our community of members which has made Alibaba.com the world’s largest marketplace for global trade.
The trading of shark fins is an issue that honest people can disagree on and there are many cultural perspectives on the issue. While we do not take positions on such issues as a company, we will continue to encourage the discussion of these issues as we believe that only through open and honest discussion can there be progress.
As relevant laws and the CITES conventions are revised and updated, Alibaba will update its policies accordingly and continue to strictly adhere to these standards.
Sincerely,
Porter Erisman
Shortly after this letter we wrote:
7.12.07
My colleges and I with the Ocean Realm Society and our partner, the Shark Research Institute, realize the issue of hosting a shark parts trading web page versus terminating the site has a lot more to do with revenue than tradition. As such, we would like to offer Alibaba.com a face saving and potential revenue alternative to boycotts and anti Alibaba.com campaigns.
Shark trading is most concentrated in the Asian community but, the fact is with the Chinese market young people are becoming less and less interested in traditional items such as shark soup as they grow the ability to afford items such as an iPod. Nevertheless, it is widely thought that by the time this new generation is in a position to have an effect on the demand for shark, the shark itself will have already vanished.
It would appear to us that Alibaba.com would find this youth market not only a current major source of income but the future source as well. And in addition, as a global trading platform it would seem that reaching the global market with a pro Alibaba.com message would also have a financial return from the recruitment of new clients.
Therefore what we are proposing is the creation of a global "Protect & Respect the Sharks" public awareness advertising campaign featuring Alibaba.com as the corporate champion or sponsor of the campaign.
The Ocean Realm Society's sister organization, Ocean Realm Media, has been in the print, television and internet media business for over 35 years. Our relationship with the world's ocean media is extensive and as a result, we can partner with hundreds of media vehicles for such a campaign.
The end results for Alibaba.com are two fold: 1) the warm, fuzzy consumer image from a global corporation that really cares about the environment and;
2) hundreds of thousands of new users that are introduced to Alibaba.com via the global advertising campaign.
I dare to say the small amount of income Alibaba.com earn's from the shark trading site pales in comparison to having thousands of new traders joining the system.
Let us not wait until the shark populations have to be listed on the endangered species list before we take action. Lets work together as environmentally responsible and moral organizations and individuals and chose to do the right thing.
In the long run everyone benefits.
Thanks for keeping the door of communications open.
Regards,
Richard Stewart
Executive Director
Ocean Realm Society
www.OceanRealmSociety.com
Editor-in-Chief
Ocean Realm Journal
www.OceanRealmJournal.com
PO Box 2388
New Smyrna Beach, FL 32169
352-817-5893
Of course - there was never an follow up which promoted us to create the FEAR MAN advertisin campaign designed to shed a negeative light on the activities of Alibaba.com. See the ad here (http://oceanrealmsociety.com/fearmanad.htm).
Let me jump in here, if I may.
Yahoo! is a California based Internet giant. If these were Dolphin or Seals being hacked apart for-just their fins-and sold by the metric ton, do you think Yahoo! would be invested here?
The answer is a quick "no".
Yahoo! chooses to hide behind a tired media stand-by "this is a cultural issue".
It is inconceivable that Yahoo! in todays green climate would not only be aware of this global slaughter-but a willing party to it.
Greetings Paul -
Please do not assume the online volleys are an attack on you personally. Yes, you and others have misquoted from some of the information you have seen - understandable when the facts are not obtained by one-on-one investigations.
Are you a diver? A lover of the ocean, or even simply understand how the balance of our planet "earth" functions.
I dare say that if you were conscience of any of these the issues you would already be in our camp - most likely at the lead considering your Hong Kong location.
Then again, are you only concerned that big business China may react in - lets say - an unacceptable manner using pressure or even force on those that oppose the big business - and their government relationships?
It is not our goal to "tear down" Alibaba.com or Yahoo China - but to help them understand that allowing any percentage of illegal activities - even if only 10% - is enough to tear down the market place that allows for such exchanges.
Those who trade in "legal" shark activities will find another method for trading - as they did before Alibab.com - and the bad guys will continue to find loop holes, only they would not have Alibaba.com to fuel the problem.
Rest assured that you, China and the world have not heard the last of this as we are concerned, committed, connected and crazy enough to continue the pressure in every which way possible.
Thanks for trying to understand.
Richard Stewart
Executive Director
Ocean Realm Society
Mr. Woodward
Please be advised that there are no examples of sustainable shark fisheries, that finning is rapidly increasing the rate of shark capture, and the fin trade is the driving force behind the decimation of shark populations. Without control, or any certifable source of sustainable products, this online trading is opening up a vast trade of fins, and very likely many that are sourced illegally.
This is irresponsible, short sighted and is leading to a crash in our ocean ecosystems.
I beg to differ, Alibaba is directly opening new markets and facilitating trade in shark parts, and by the lack of any sourcing or control, is directly responsible for the decrease in shark populations. Since it has been demonstrated scientifically several times over that removing apex predators like sharks creates an imbalance leading to an unhealthy ecosystem, trading in shark fin is having more deleterious effects than just killing shark populations.
We are working here in the states to argue that Yahoo divest itself of Alibaba.
I recommend that alibaba work with wildaid or other non profits to attain a method of sourcing and control, or stop the shark fin trade.
I have just produced a film on shark conservation and shark fining,m featuring three recognized shark scientists adn experts. I recommend you see it or at least watch the trailer.
sincerely,
David McGuire, Producer
ww.sharkstewards.com
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